tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post5173221985632064892..comments2024-03-06T06:34:42.881-05:00Comments on EconoSpeak: State Department Mostly Correct About Canadian PipelineUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-48792260724920066882013-03-14T05:31:33.777-04:002013-03-14T05:31:33.777-04:00I'm not in agreement here Barkley. You write t...I'm not in agreement here Barkley. You write that "nearly zero CO2 is involved in this decision", but there is a large difference in the price paid for oil between Alberta and most U.S. markets. If pipelines equalize those prices it would justify a significant expansion of a very dirty operation.<br /><br />And don't be so sure that "If this is turned down, well, either the Canadians will build to the Pacific or the East Coast..." The Harper govt can't just jam it through, they'll need help in the provinces, where they have more enemies than friends.Matsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11399355932672544121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-39119269459611922622013-03-07T21:29:16.081-05:002013-03-07T21:29:16.081-05:00So there is no claim that stopping Keystone XL is ...So there is no claim that stopping Keystone XL is the be-all-and-end-all of the issue, only that slowing the expansion of bitumin extraction would likely result in the medium-run, once you take account of actual facts on the ground (including costs and prices), rather than abstracting technocratically into a sub specie aeternitatis view that eventually such costs and price barriers would be overcome. (So you're really in no position to call others ignorant and deluded with such condescension, when you yourself haven't looked up the facts and are relying on a WaPo article!) But opposition to the XL pipeline, even though, given the "correlation of forces" it will likely fail, at least lays down a marker in public understanding and opens the way to more permanent long-run solutions, such as a graduated, escalating carbon tax-and-rebate scheme.john c. halaszhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17176419625607679150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-49585450316640875242013-03-07T21:18:19.498-05:002013-03-07T21:18:19.498-05:00The matter has little to do with U.S. oil supplies...The matter has little to do with U.S. oil supplies, since at most it would amount to substituting for heavy, sour Veenezuelan crude with still worse Canadian crud. But it has everything to do with blocking off access to international markets as things now stand, which will dry up reinvestment in expanded Alberta bitumin production via recycling its profits, which have currently crashed. As is clearly explained in this Michael Klare article:<br /><br />http://www.opednews.com/articles/Michael-Klare-Will-the-Ke-by-Tom-Engelhardt-130211-190.htmljohn c. halaszhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17176419625607679150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-34457204869283213912013-03-07T21:10:09.376-05:002013-03-07T21:10:09.376-05:00Thirdly, there is heavy opposition in BC to pipeli...Thirdly, there is heavy opposition in BC to pipeline expansion and little likely that any additional capacity will soon be built. So much so, that Harper, an Alberta pol, originally a protege of Preston Manning, is considered to be losing his re-election prospects by losing any BC support. They are planning to ship it to Montreal, (and we here in VT are fighting off an attempt to ship it from their to international markets in Portland ME through a 60 year-old pipeline!), but that's just a measure of their desperation. The key issue is can they readily get the gunk to international ports to fetch a much higher price and thus far they can't.john c. halaszhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17176419625607679150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-14114680088855798822013-03-07T20:56:27.188-05:002013-03-07T20:56:27.188-05:00In the second place, the report uses rail cost fro...In the second place, the report uses rail cost from the ND shale oil and simply extrapolates from them to the (unbuilt) Alberta case. There is, indeed, a pipeline bottle-neck, given increased U.S. oil production, which accounts for the discrepancy between the WTI (domestic) and the Brent (international) price, which is why shipping by rail from ND is viable, since getting it to the east coast where imports prevail is marginally more profitable. But the ND oil is light sweet crude. And it has crowded out tar sands oil for limited transport and refinery capacity in the midwest, such that tar sands oil is now going for $56/barrel with a production cost of at least $50/barrel, scarcely viable and justifying of further investment.john c. halaszhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17176419625607679150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-75015566159666501552013-03-07T20:48:57.873-05:002013-03-07T20:48:57.873-05:00Sorry Barkley, this is one of the dumbest comments...Sorry Barkley, this is one of the dumbest comments you ever wrote.<br /><br />In the first place, the "State Dept" report was outsourced, in typical neo-liberal fashion to energy consulting firms:<br /><br />http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/mar/06/keystone-xl-report-oil-consultants<br /><br />Even if you dismiss any overt bias or corruption, the issue of "cognitive regulatory capture" arises, as the authors routinely take up the industries POV.john c. halaszhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17176419625607679150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-13549106097213276982013-03-05T19:19:28.047-05:002013-03-05T19:19:28.047-05:00Dr Rosser:
With all due respect, there are alread...Dr Rosser:<br /><br />With all due respect, there are already two pipelines going to the west coast to Vancouver and a US city. Each city has ports.<br /><br />Enbridge (pipeline system) Losing Bakken Oil Business to Railroads, Refiner Says; http://www.1derrick.com/rail-preferred-for-bakken-oil-enbridge-pipelines-underused/5583/ Bloomberg Maybe I am missing your point; but, this sounds more like competition. Pipelines have been underutilized for some time now.run75441https://www.blogger.com/profile/03790826995006015721noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-58134124653199322052013-03-04T12:10:57.458-05:002013-03-04T12:10:57.458-05:00I will add that yesterday's WaPo published a s...I will add that yesterday's WaPo published a story that TransCanada is starting to ship their stuff by rail. Already over 60% of what leaves North Dakota goes by rail, with only 27% by pipeline. The idea that killing XL is going to stop tar sands development in Alberta is simply false. They will not bother buidling pipelines to either coast, they'll just ship it by rail, although that will slow things down a bit.<br /><br />The real irony is that this will be somewhat more expensive than a pipeline. Unfortunately, that direct expense will be accompanied by indirect extra environmental expense, burning fuel on trains is more environmentally damaging than pumping it through pipelines. So, given that the tar sands are going to be developed and sent through the US (the rail lines cannot be blocked), in fact in the end the XL Keystone pipeline will be better for the environment than the most likely alternative.rosserjb@jmu.eduhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09300046915843554101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-51800137774123142032013-03-04T12:06:55.611-05:002013-03-04T12:06:55.611-05:00Peter,
Maybe you are right about Alar.Peter,<br /><br />Maybe you are right about Alar.rosserjb@jmu.eduhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09300046915843554101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-1493284328249419522013-03-03T15:27:13.683-05:002013-03-03T15:27:13.683-05:00Barkley, I'll leave it to others to argue the ...Barkley, I'll leave it to others to argue the pipeline itself. Just one small detail: you seem to have bought into the "Alar scare" meme. Alar may have been overblown, but the scaremongers were more right than wrong, and the apple industry has done just fine in the decades after the ban. For a blow-by-blow, see PR Watch: http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/1997Q2/alar.html<br /><br />There's also an analysis by the Environmental Working Group (a source well worth knowing), but they seem to be offline as I write this.Peter Dormanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00093399591393648071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-46147532092693868832013-03-03T12:46:55.632-05:002013-03-03T12:46:55.632-05:00Hi Dr. Rosser:
Just a dumb question; why would we...Hi Dr. Rosser:<br /><br />Just a dumb question; why would we place more capacity and oil in one of the more sensitive ecological areas when it comes to hurricanes and associated weather solely for exportation?<br /><br />I believe Canada remains the #1 supplier of oil (even though bitumen) having taken over from the Sauidis years ago. Maybe, we should be looking for a better solution than the Gulf region of the US and keep their oil in the US.run75441https://www.blogger.com/profile/03790826995006015721noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-8401155607284380722013-03-03T02:13:23.979-05:002013-03-03T02:13:23.979-05:00Apologize about the duplicate comment. And, I per...Apologize about the duplicate comment. And, I personally respect Bill McKibben, who has put lots of effort into fighting global warming. I am sorry he got himself so worked up about this ultimatly unimportant issue.rosserjb@jmu.eduhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09300046915843554101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-75785620898835291662013-03-03T01:56:27.689-05:002013-03-03T01:56:27.689-05:00Look, folks. This is one of the most important is...Look, folks. This is one of the most important issues in the world. This means that if those running the politics are a bunch of irresponsible ignorant egomaniacal fools (and, yes, leading the world movement on this can lead one into wrongful falsehoods), they should be removed and sent as far away as possible.<br /><br />It looks like McKibben is the ignorant egomaniac who had led the world environmental movement into this sinkhole. If is not him, please somebody say who it is. It is him; he should resign, apologize, and shut the fuck up in the future.rosserjb@jmu.eduhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09300046915843554101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-82203684412267987302013-03-03T01:51:38.102-05:002013-03-03T01:51:38.102-05:00There are many environmental issues to care about....There are many environmental issues to care about. Somehow or other this penny ante pipeline got picked up by not very well informed environmentalists and turned into this big global warming issue. Global warming is indeed the most important world issue facing us, and it shows up in many ways. <br /><br />But this case was ridiculously exaggerated to the point of embarrassing the entire world environmental movement. I do not know fully who was behind this idiotic and ignorant fiasco, but whoever it was should not in the future be taken remotely seriously. It looks like it was probably McKibben, but I am not sure. If indeed it was him, he should step down, resign, and shut the fuck up in the future. Really. rosserjb@jmu.eduhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09300046915843554101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-69274327175546481752013-03-03T01:41:40.267-05:002013-03-03T01:41:40.267-05:00You'll let us know what we are supposed to car...You'll let us know what we are supposed to care about then? chrismealyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05591805477096884764noreply@blogger.com