tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post9156212029123357769..comments2024-03-06T06:34:42.881-05:00Comments on EconoSpeak: Disposable PeopleUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-14950873956168746732021-03-16T01:17:06.172-04:002021-03-16T01:17:06.172-04:00Calgacus,
You're right. Anton Menger, not Aug...Calgacus,<br /><br />You're right. Anton Menger, not August. However, it was Engels and Kautsky, not Engels and Marx, who replied harshly to Menger. I haven't read Engels and Kautsky on Menger but obviously should. <br /><br />My use of "disposable people" is a historical one referencing Chalmers's "disposable populations" and their relation to "disposable income" as the rhetorical target of Dilke's "disposable time." Frankly, I prefer "socially available time" to "disposable time" but I am talking about words people used historically and their reception and transmission. Sandwichmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11159060882083015637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-40118079615591896522021-03-15T15:39:18.454-04:002021-03-15T15:39:18.454-04:00Anonymous: I tried; a country that has been been l...Anonymous: <i>I tried; a country that has been been lessening the number of disposable people by more than 10 million a year, year after year, should be credited. Likely though, for too many economists this is the wrong country. I will try again.</i><br /><br />Agree with everything you've said. The way today's China is discussed and treated in today's West is shameful and embarrassing. China is and should be a model; the objections are trivial and underinformed. As an American, I might suggest that FDR's New Deal was a decent model for China and its rise. I think Chinese histories of that era in the USA are probably better than the current Western ones! From the right, center and left!, their uniform consensus about our own history is as appallingly, as provably wrong as today's mean-spirited view of China.<br /><br />Your usage of "disposable people", is more similar to Kevin Bales', more standard English than Sandwichman's - he may be trying to épater les bourgeois. "Disposable people" sounds much, much worse, horrifyingly worse, for the "unproductive people" he is talking about. <br /><br />Neither are optimal locutions in my opinion, but "unproductive" is much better for what he is talking about, "disposable" for what you just said - meaning "disadvantaged [underpriviliged, deprived, discriminated-against] people" there.<br />Calgacushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06031818010224747000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-56762044489338477942021-03-15T15:01:25.751-04:002021-03-15T15:01:25.751-04:00That's Anton Menger, Carl's brother. No ec...That's Anton Menger, Carl's brother. No economist August Menger. My hypothesis is that Marx & Engels' response to that book was a major self-inflicted wound that helped put their followers on blind alleys. They responded to Menger's not entirely misdirected ideas with naysaying so excessive it practically deprived their own theory and policy of positive content. So what else was left but turning to sloganeering, rigidity and pious wishes they deplored? Anyhow, that's how I remember reading their response.Calgacushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06031818010224747000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-92035320303246678022021-03-11T20:32:18.809-05:002021-03-11T20:32:18.809-05:00Thank you, Bruce. That is a great compliment.Thank you, Bruce. That is a great compliment.Sandwichmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11159060882083015637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-18334692499797553012021-03-11T16:33:41.424-05:002021-03-11T16:33:41.424-05:00This great essay makes me think of the late, great...This great essay makes me think of the late, great David Graeber’s book <i>Bullshit Jobs</i>.J. Bruce Hugheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05553488660946232491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-54118327876002185832021-03-07T08:13:24.568-05:002021-03-07T08:13:24.568-05:00Finally, I realize I am a nuisance, but this essay...Finally, I realize I am a nuisance, but this essay is brilliant and I thank you so much for it.<br /><br />Thank you for the writing and kindness.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-30044645500087500122021-03-06T15:56:45.835-05:002021-03-06T15:56:45.835-05:00I tried; a country that has been been lessening th...I tried; a country that has been been lessening the number of disposable people by more than 10 million a year, year after year, should be credited. Likely though, for too many economists this is the wrong country. I will try again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-26109901449494440252021-03-06T09:48:55.477-05:002021-03-06T09:48:55.477-05:00When hundreds of millions of people have been lift...When hundreds of millions of people have been lifted from severe poverty and have become necessary people, no longer disposable, and are leading increasingly satisfying lives, notice should be taken:<br /><br />https://news.cgtn.com/news/2021-03-03/From-the-Soil-Deyang-A-legend-of-the-sea-in-the-mountains--YiVr525zO0/index.html<br /><br />March 3, 2021<br /><br />From the Soil: Deyang – A legend of the sea in the mountains<br /><br />In the video series "From the Soil," CGTN invites development experts to visit China's rural regions to investigate the methods used to reduce poverty and examine how they can be applied to global poverty alleviation work. In the 13th episode, Mario Cavolo, a senior fellow at the Center for China and Globalization, heads to Deyang City, Sichuan Province, to find out how a man-made sea reduced poverty there.<br /><br />China is the most populous country in the world, and despite its vast territory, it still faces a shortage of arable land, few resources per capita and an uneven distribution.<br /><br />Sichuan is one of China's most populous provinces, but rolling mountain ranges occupy large areas of its land, making it difficult for villagers in the mountains to get out and for resources to get in, and many villages have long suffered from poverty as a result. In Deyang, however, people have built a little sea and a Gaohuai Cultural Village, which in turn has lifted people out of poverty. And this is how they achieved it....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-22663487169279207482021-03-06T08:35:30.153-05:002021-03-06T08:35:30.153-05:00Note; Wikipedia has unfortunately been edited to o...Note; Wikipedia has unfortunately been edited to often distort an understanding of China and should be used on China with caution. This really is unfortunate, but the disdain for China that has been carefully cultivated is difficult to get past.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-26526267748785619072021-03-06T08:27:13.280-05:002021-03-06T08:27:13.280-05:00I know far too well the disdain that has been crea...I know far too well the disdain that has been created in America towards China and that unfortunately includes Britain and Australia and seemingly even Canada, but try to look to objectively what China is becoming and understand how well the experience of China relates to this essay.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-25745259510553573312021-03-06T08:20:56.626-05:002021-03-06T08:20:56.626-05:00https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WEO/weo-databa...https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WEO/weo-database/2020/October/weo-report?c=924,134,534,158,111,&s=PPPPC,&sy=1980&ey=2020&ssm=0&scsm=1&scc=0&ssd=1&ssc=0&sic=0&sort=country&ds=.&br=1<br /><br />October 15, 2020<br /><br />Gross Domestic Product per capita based on purchasing-power-parity (PPP) for China, Germany, India, Japan and United States, 1980 & 2020<br /><br />1980<br /><br />China ( 307)<br />Germany ( 11,143)<br />India ( 533)<br />Japan ( 8,948)<br />United States ( 12,553)<br /><br />2020<br /><br />China ( 17,206)<br />Germany ( 53,571)<br />India ( 6,284)<br />Japan ( 41,637)<br />United States ( 63,051)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-12950905815636257442021-03-06T08:19:33.427-05:002021-03-06T08:19:33.427-05:00The essay, which I have read 3 times, is brilliant...The essay, which I have read 3 times, is brilliant and compelling, and leads me to better understand just how important a China that is working at steadily increasing economic inclusion is as a model. We have a country that in 1980 had a per capita GDP that was a little more than half that of India, but in 2020 had come to eliminate severe poverty having grown in per capita terms far faster through these years than any major economy had grown. The point has been in effect the inclusion of people, steadily lessening what it is to be disposable.<br /><br />There is more to come.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-6479912318908309892021-03-05T21:50:35.450-05:002021-03-05T21:50:35.450-05:00Sandwichman: the meetings in China now are perfect...Sandwichman: the meetings in China now are perfectly fitted to the gist of your essay. The proceeding are translated and written about on CGTN, Xinhuanet and GlobalTimes. I can discuss them as you wish. There is a revelation there for those who can learn wish objectivity, but objectivity about China is very, very difficult now in our countries.<br /><br />Still, understand what it means to have had 535,000 coronavirus deaths in the US and 4,636 exactly in China from the beginning to now. People of no account in the US, were of account in China and a number of other countries such as New Zealand or Thailand or Vietnam... As for me, I am asking what this means. Branko Milanovic is asking as well:<br /><br />https://glineq.blogspot.com/2021/01/beware-of-mashup-indexes-how-epidemic.html<br /><br />January 22, 2021<br /><br />Beware of mashup indexes: how epidemic predictors got it all wrongAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-81776117166432698202021-03-05T19:53:46.913-05:002021-03-05T19:53:46.913-05:00About migrants urban residency rights an important...About migrants urban residency rights an important instance of change comes from Beijing, where a partner city is being built outside of Beijing. The partner city will be the administrative locale, complete with new residence, while Beijing will be the commercial and cultural locale, complete with added residence. The cities share infrastructure. The new area is nearing completion.<br /><br />Similarly, thinking about the Belt and Road, Branko Milanovic and I suggest the Marshall Plan as a parallel. Building a railroad to the sea for landlocked Ethiopia or unlocking-landlocked Laos not for extractive trade but commercial exchange on a roughly even technical level. The US threatened Rwanda to allow used clothing to be exported from the US to Rwanda and so undermining clothing production in the African country. That is not trade China will be conducting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-3366218283897269902021-03-05T18:27:56.692-05:002021-03-05T18:27:56.692-05:00Now, this is the perfect time to look at developme...Now, this is the perfect time to look at development planning in China since the coming 5-year proposals and plan are being discussed and will be voted on by general assembly delegates. The proposals are collected from regions through China and have been gradually refined; the plan will be transparent.<br /><br />Shaped by your thinking, I can easily present elements of the plan in the wake of severe poverty elimination as lessening the number of people who might otherwise be termed "disposable" both domestically and along the Belt and Road. The range will be from strengthening social security to infrastructure development through Pakistan (CPEC, are the program initials) with mutually beneficial trade as an objective.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-13943832440070469152021-03-05T17:12:17.799-05:002021-03-05T17:12:17.799-05:00Terrific, tangible argument:
https://twitter.com/...Terrific, tangible argument:<br /><br />https://twitter.com/andymok/status/1366227794695516161<br /><br />Andy Mok @andymok<br /><br />Is Socialism with Chinese characteristics a benevolent and humane system? In this thread I argue that it is and explain why: Many around the world, especially in the United States, are still trapped in a benighted, primitive and perniciously toxic superstition<br /><br />10:24 PM · Feb 28, 2021Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-17544915554649621712021-03-05T15:00:27.873-05:002021-03-05T15:00:27.873-05:00I will return, but for sure there are to be no ter...I will return, but for sure there are to be no territorially disposable people as development continues. Xi Xinjing has experience in this and such people are not forgotten.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-73660744335809709212021-03-05T14:56:18.180-05:002021-03-05T14:56:18.180-05:00The second point is migrant workers, who do not ha...The second point is migrant workers, who do not have the right to reside in the urban areas where they work....<br /><br />[ This has been important, but is fast being changed as part of the poverty and rural development program. The object is to create rewarding work in rural communities, which will be a prime objective through the coming 5-year plan. I can and will further explain. ]<br /><br /><br />The first thing is China's huge reliance on foreign investment and trade with the wealthy nations of Europe and the United States. It seems to me, therefore, that we can't abstract a China-system from the global economy of commodity production and trade....<br /><br />[ Again, important but changing fast. The Belt and Road Initiative is indicative of the change. I will discuss this later. ]Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-72462352850985033312021-03-05T14:34:07.459-05:002021-03-05T14:34:07.459-05:00"Doesn't China show a productive and rewa..."Doesn't China show a productive and rewarding way out for many other peoples?"<br /><br />Two points about China, with the proviso that I am not a China expert and have to rely on others' analysis and reporting. The first thing is China's huge reliance on foreign investment and trade with the wealthy nations of Europe and the United States. It seems to me, therefore, that we can't abstract a China-system from the global economy of commodity production and trade.<br /><br />The second point is migrant workers, who do not have the right to reside in the urban areas where they work. Wikipedia gives the number of 290 million. I don't know if that number is correct but that is a large population that is, in effect, territorially "disposable." Now, it is obvious that the migrant workers are "better off" than if they had remained in their rural homes. Otherwise, why would they leave? Nevertheless, they remain as a very large group of workers who do not have full rights to decent employment standards and compensation.<br /><br />You may disagree with the accuracy of my information or its significance but my question remains whether large-scale reliance on foreign trade and internal migration offers a blueprint for other countries. It certainly doesn't IMHO for Canada, the United States and Western Europe. Sandwichmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11159060882083015637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-5713806314770292482021-03-05T14:19:15.488-05:002021-03-05T14:19:15.488-05:00March 5, 2021
Coronavirus
Sweden
Cases ( 684,...March 5, 2021<br /><br />Coronavirus<br /><br />Sweden<br /><br />Cases ( 684,961)<br />Deaths ( 13,003)<br /><br />Deaths per million ( 1,282)<br /><br />China<br /><br />Cases ( 89,952)<br />Deaths ( 4,636)<br /><br />Deaths per million ( 3)<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-40239276422186159722021-03-05T14:17:47.173-05:002021-03-05T14:17:47.173-05:00How can Sweden be considered a social democracy in...How can Sweden be considered a social democracy in the wake of the coronavirus? China fought to save every person and protect every person. In Sweden, people were disposable enough to have a simply terrible death and illness experience. Little Sweden did far worse than all of China, even absolutely. How can this be?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-71672044561817047642021-03-05T14:01:56.003-05:002021-03-05T14:01:56.003-05:00The British political elite too evidently thought ...The British political elite too evidently thought many, many people were disposable. Sweden? To me these countries were redefining social democracy or perhaps I was too naïve.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-54186712972593498762021-03-05T13:58:02.032-05:002021-03-05T13:58:02.032-05:00After all, the American response to the coronaviru...After all, the American response to the coronavirus makes me think we considered more than 500,000 people disposable. The BMJ British Medical Journal wrote of "social murder."<br /><br />https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n314<br /><br />February 4, 2021<br /><br />Covid-19: Social murder, they wrote—elected, unaccountable, and unrepentantAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-14033333827724467702021-03-05T13:49:27.469-05:002021-03-05T13:49:27.469-05:00Thank you so much for the fine, fine response.
I ...Thank you so much for the fine, fine response.<br /><br />I am thinking of China, which has created work for literally hundreds of millions of people these last decades; work that was meant to be rewarding and has become increasingly so. Imagine an entire people and no severe poverty and China is promising workers much more from here.<br /><br />China has soldiers, of course, but I can imagine no way around this and China has not been at war for more than 40 years and then fortunately only briefly.<br /><br />Doesn't China show a productive and rewarding way out for many other peoples?<br /><br />Could a Canada have no disposable people?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-36839832777007175342021-03-05T13:32:08.012-05:002021-03-05T13:32:08.012-05:00Anonymous,
PART of your complaint should be addre...Anonymous,<br /><br />PART of your complaint should be addressed to Thomas Chalmers, who came up with the term "disposable population" and populated it with the occupations that didn't furnish food, clothing or shelter. What I am trying to do in my essay is call attention to Chalmers's term and its immanent critique, disposable <i>time</i>.<br /><br />There is a deeper layer of analysis of disposable people that I only allude to but that Chantelle appears to have picked up on right away. Chalmers celebrated disposable people particularly for their military availability. More disposable people improved the nation's capability to wage war. This "solution," however, creates a dilemma -- an "unsolved riddle," if you will. An economy of disposable people is only fully engaged when it is at war.<br /><br />War is the only thing that makes the surplus population of disposable people indispensable. That is why we can not have "leisure as the birthright of every human being."Sandwichmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11159060882083015637noreply@blogger.com