tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post9167695073102807410..comments2024-03-06T06:34:42.881-05:00Comments on EconoSpeak: Economics: The View from 35,000 FeetUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-21168532208275641242018-05-11T16:22:37.086-04:002018-05-11T16:22:37.086-04:00Well, Thornton, when I shifted from econ to physic...Well, Thornton, when I shifted from econ to physics while writing poetry, I described econ at the time as being "rigorous bullshit."rosserjb@jmu.eduhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09300046915843554101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-51711420482075856842018-05-11T15:24:09.282-04:002018-05-11T15:24:09.282-04:00Perhaps you’ve read the blog post where I claim th...Perhaps you’ve read the blog post where I claim that economics is moral philosophy practiced by mathematicians?<br /><br />http://thorntonhalldesign.com/philosophy/2014/5/8/change-your-mind-and-see-what-was-always-thereThornton Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11402495641975262697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-74108815877153319272018-05-10T19:43:38.459-04:002018-05-10T19:43:38.459-04:00a fact-value distinction is pretty basic and taken...a fact-value distinction is pretty basic and taken into account in all the social sciences, but i did not think that was what Professor Dorman was referring to. the welfare economics interpretation of the positive / normative distinction is embedded in formal methodology of a ritual kind that seems to me to make it distinctive, for economics. i rather like Prof Dorman's remark about the correspondence with the twin functions of the priesthood -- I would like to see a longer riff<br /><br />it might be useful to reflect that economics has a laity to go with its priesthood and that economic institutions typically prescribe an ethic and norms as part of their operational functions and design. Bruce Wilderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09631065564839959376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-90986082246705818232018-05-10T16:55:34.285-04:002018-05-10T16:55:34.285-04:00Barkley, I'm not disputing the value of distin...Barkley, I'm not disputing the value of distinguishing positive from normative; on the contrary, it's the basis for the point I'm trying to make. Positive economics is essential and should be as objective and self-questioning as possible, despite the inescapable normative influences. Normative, i.e. welfare, economics, whose sole purpose is to translate the was/is/will be of positive research into should (i.e. optimal), should be jettisoned in its entirety.<br /><br />I used to defend the better parts of the welfarist apparatus from guilt by association with the worst, but now I don't think there's a better. It's all pernicious nonsense, and the scaled down, less "superior" (Fourcade) economics that's left after welfare is chucked will be all we need.Peter Dormanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00093399591393648071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900303239154048192.post-529004850284485302018-05-10T13:10:13.578-04:002018-05-10T13:10:13.578-04:00Peter,
Yes, in econ positive and normative are wi...Peter,<br /><br />Yes, in econ positive and normative are widely and deeply mixed. However, I do not think this is grounds for simply dismissing the distinction entirely. What remains as positive, if sometimes tainted by definitional or measurement nethdological biases, are data, or, if you will, hard cold facts, even if they are sometimes fuzzily measured. Yes, they may be measured in categories that reflect ideologies, but they are there, and dismissing taking them seriously because, wow, positive and normative are just so inextricably linked, just opens the door to Trump types who shout "fake news" at facts like global warming, much less what was the path of the unemployment rate when Obama was president. I say we must retain proper respect and use of data and facts as much as possible, even as we subject supposedly normative analysis and interpretation of those facts to much stricter vetting than has often gone on in the past.rosserjb@jmu.eduhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09300046915843554101noreply@blogger.com