I don't even come here since Max quit. I'm just here to make a request- to the authors here and anyone articulate and literate in the issues. Would some of you at least spend less time here and more at the sites where you'll find some real opposition?
The bigger sites left and right are being swamped with visitors who, though mostly idiots who don't know a damn thing and usually don't care, are now scared and looking for information. They're the undecided and embarrassing it is to the human race, they are the one's who will decide the election. A good place to start. http://patterico.com/2008/09/17/obama-and-his-media-pals-mislead-on-wall-street-turmoil/
Or go to Megan McArdle. It's not about her, or you, it's about the god damn election.
Keating Five? How about Phil Gramm and his, now infamous, surreptitious addition to an omnibus bill back in 1998 or '99. Talk about feathering one's own nest at the expense of the rest. Oh Steagall-Glass, wherefore art thou.
What could be more appropriate? Suddenly Sen McCain is laying the blame for all the madness at the feet of Christopher Cox, SEC Chair. "McCain Says S.E.C. Chairman Should Be Fired" http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/18/mccain-says-sec-chairman-should-be-fired/
The jist;"Mr. McCain faulted the Securities and Exchange Commission, saying it had “kept in place trading rules that let speculators and hedge funds turn our markets into a casino’’ and said that its chairman, Christopher Cox, should be fired." " “The chairman of the S.E.C. serves at the appointment of the president and in my view, has betrayed the public’s trust,’’ he said at a rally in an airport hangar here. “If I were president today, I would fire him.’’
Mr. McCain also called for the creation of a new entity to try to keep institutions solvent and that would sell off the troubled assets of ailing financial firms. “I am calling for the creation of the mortgage and financial institutions trust – the M.F.I.,’’ he said. “The priorities of this trust will be to work with the private sector and regulators to identify institutions that are weak and take remedies to strengthen them before they become insolvent. For troubled institutions this will provide an orderly process through which to identify bad loans and eventually sell them.”
Is this a case of the pot calling the kettle black? Or worse yet, is McCain trying to deflect criticsm of his role in assisting Phil Gramm to scuttle Steagall-Glass ten years ago? His new commission sounds llike a combination of the Federal Reserve and that previously deregulated regulation legislation.
Jack, if you look back a bit further you will find his work to dereg energy and his wife's position as CFTC chair followed with a stint at Enron. So if one accepts that energy and other commodity prices have been driven by spec and that this has placed much greater burden on most of the population... Well, you get the picture.
If the Obama campaign people don't make moise about these past associations between Gramm, McCain and their "buddies" in the energy and finance sectors, then maybe they don't deserve to win. Unfortunately that leaves the rest of us up the proverbial creek. Where's my paddle? And let's not forget that Gramm's consultiing firm has recently been representing UBS Financial, a paragon of investing chutzpah.
"If the Obama campaign people don't make moise about these past associations between Gramm, McCain and their "buddies" in the energy and finance sectors, then maybe they don't deserve to win. "
And there are plenty of blogs full of McCain leaning readers (if not poster) where you can make that argument yourself. I've been doing that for weeks and weeks. Why don't you?
anon., I think your effort may be misguided, or at best ineffective. I also inhabit Angry Bear and have been sayinig much the same thing there. There are at least a half dozen regulars there who could be readily identified as McCain supporters. They often make absolutely no sense in their arguments for McCain or anything Republican. They are the choir. What I say here is readily available in the daily press. I don't know which of the alternative sites you are referring to, but I don't generally post on sites with dozens of other participants. Too much noise for any thing to be said of any value.
Guess you were the anonymous in another posting complaining that none of us are commenting on right wing blogs. Just for the record, I do quite a lot, although not on Meagan McArdle. So, I suggest you stuff it on this particular line of commentary. It is not accurate and is now getting old through repetition.
"I do quite a lot, although not on Meagan McArdle. So, I suggest you stuff it on this particular line of commentary. It is not accurate and is now getting old through repetition."
It was a request to everyone readers especially. And no, in my travels on right wing blogs I've noticed that the rebuttal from the left including liberals on those sites has been third rate- "c" level. As I said above it's not about trying to convince the goons it's arguing with goons for the benefit of the thousands of people who do not post. And Angry Bear is not a right wing site is it?
If not the A team, the B team should be spending time making the case publicly to people on the fence.
I've had this request removed from two sites as spam. I find that grotesque.
Frankly I think that spending any amount of time on so-called right wing sites is a complete waste of time. Angry Bear is not too different from EconoSpeak in regards to content and orientation, but it does attract a few of the less venal reactionary trolls. Exchanging ideas with the regular posters and commenters on these two sites has increased my own understanding of the issues discussed, especially Social Security. That enables me to have a more informed ability to discuss the same issues with friends and relations off the web and thereby have the effect that you, anon, are seeking. I don't think we can change the opinions of the trolls. There not on the sites to learn. They're there to convince themselves. It's your own small circle of friends that you may actually be able to influence if you sound knowledgeable.
"That enables me to have a more informed ability to discuss the same issues with friends and relations off the web and thereby have the effect that you, anon, are seeking."
As if you or your friends were ever going to vote for Mccain? No. I talking about bringing the fight to the trolls and the credulous idiots who they impress. I'm talking about chatting with, comforting hectoring and lecturing the stupid, who are after all the vast majority of the human population,
You continue to miss my point. Amazing. I give up. Rosser, tell your brighter students they should be trolls on right wing sites.
blogs are about bonding with allies, not convincing the undecided. people who get it should be writing letters to local papers and volunteering for Obama. the comment box is not the public sphere, folks...
"blogs are about bonding with allies... the comment box is not the public sphere, folks."
Says who? Who defines what blogs are for!!? You're making me want to agree with Cass Sunstein, and that's not something I would really ever want to do. You want your echo chamber.
That's beyond pathetic, especially in a democracy.
Anon, No, you are wrong. Many of the people I know are clueless and inclined to vote from an emotional base. That would likely mean McCain. Friends and relatives both think this way. They are not inclined to vote from a perspective of strength. They are frequently in fear of something. Obama is not a candidate for the fearful. He is a candidate for the informed. I spend a lot of energy trying to inform my small circle of friends. I consider myself successful if I can multiply my vote by ten, but I'm looking for lots more than that. Direct intervention is the best means to change. Educate your friends and relatives. Leave the professional bloggers to the task of educating us in the ways to educate others.
So it's no use canvassing either, or volunteering in any other way. I know politics is a stupid business, but that's how it's done. We live by categories, not logic. These are your categories.
17 comments:
The talk today is that we may be brining back the Resolution Trust Fund. I feel almost 20 years younger!
I see Sherrod's on the case:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/17/senate-dem-raises-keating_n_127088.html
I don't even come here since Max quit. I'm just here to make a request- to the authors here and anyone articulate and literate in the issues.
Would some of you at least spend less time here and more at the sites where you'll find some real opposition?
The bigger sites left and right are being swamped with visitors who, though mostly idiots who don't know a damn thing and usually don't care, are now scared and looking for information. They're the undecided and embarrassing it is to the human race, they are the one's who will decide the election. A good place to start.
http://patterico.com/2008/09/17/obama-and-his-media-pals-mislead-on-wall-street-turmoil/
Or go to Megan McArdle. It's not about her, or you, it's about the god damn election.
Keating Five? How about Phil Gramm and his, now infamous, surreptitious addition to an omnibus bill back in 1998 or '99.
Talk about feathering one's own nest at the expense of the rest. Oh Steagall-Glass, wherefore art thou.
What could be more appropriate? Suddenly Sen McCain is laying the blame for all the madness at the feet of Christopher Cox, SEC Chair.
"McCain Says S.E.C. Chairman Should Be Fired"
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/18/mccain-says-sec-chairman-should-be-fired/
The jist;"Mr. McCain faulted the Securities and Exchange Commission, saying it had “kept in place trading rules that let speculators and hedge funds turn our markets into a casino’’ and said that its chairman, Christopher Cox, should be fired."
"
“The chairman of the S.E.C. serves at the appointment of the president and in my view, has betrayed the public’s trust,’’ he said at a rally in an airport hangar here. “If I were president today, I would fire him.’’
Mr. McCain also called for the creation of a new entity to try to keep institutions solvent and that would sell off the troubled assets of ailing financial firms. “I am calling for the creation of the mortgage and financial institutions trust – the M.F.I.,’’ he said. “The priorities of this trust will be to work with the private sector and regulators to identify institutions that are weak and take remedies to strengthen them before they become insolvent. For troubled institutions this will provide an orderly process through which to identify bad loans and eventually sell them.”
Is this a case of the pot calling the kettle black? Or worse yet, is McCain trying to deflect criticsm of his role in assisting Phil Gramm to scuttle Steagall-Glass ten years ago? His new commission sounds llike a combination of the Federal Reserve and that previously deregulated regulation legislation.
Jack, if you look back a bit further you will find his work to dereg energy and his wife's position as CFTC chair followed with a stint at Enron.
So if one accepts that energy and other commodity prices have been driven by spec and that this has placed much greater burden on most of the population... Well, you get the picture.
If the Obama campaign people don't make moise about these past associations between Gramm, McCain and their "buddies" in the energy and finance sectors, then maybe they don't deserve to win. Unfortunately that leaves the rest of us up the proverbial creek. Where's my paddle? And let's not forget that Gramm's consultiing firm has recently been representing UBS Financial, a paragon of investing chutzpah.
"If the Obama campaign people don't make moise about these past associations between Gramm, McCain and their "buddies" in the energy and finance sectors, then maybe they don't deserve to win. "
And there are plenty of blogs full of McCain leaning readers (if not poster) where you can make that argument yourself.
I've been doing that for weeks and weeks.
Why don't you?
anon.,
I think your effort may be misguided, or at best ineffective. I also inhabit Angry Bear and have been sayinig much the same thing there. There are at least a half dozen regulars there who could be readily identified as McCain supporters. They often make absolutely no sense in their arguments for McCain or anything Republican. They are the choir. What I say here is readily available in the daily press. I don't know which of the alternative sites you are referring to, but I don't generally post on sites with dozens of other participants. Too much noise for any thing to be said
of any value.
anonymous,
Guess you were the anonymous in another posting complaining that none of us are commenting on right wing blogs. Just for the record, I do quite a lot, although not on Meagan McArdle. So, I suggest you stuff it on this particular line of commentary. It is not accurate and is now getting old through repetition.
"I do quite a lot, although not on Meagan McArdle. So, I suggest you stuff it on this particular line of commentary. It is not accurate and is now getting old through repetition."
It was a request to everyone readers especially.
And no, in my travels on right wing blogs I've noticed that the rebuttal from the left including liberals on those sites has been third rate- "c" level.
As I said above it's not about trying to convince the goons it's arguing with goons for the benefit of the thousands of people who do not post. And Angry Bear is not a right wing site is it?
If not the A team, the B team should be spending time making the case publicly to people on the fence.
I've had this request removed from two sites as spam.
I find that grotesque.
Frankly I think that spending any amount of time on so-called right wing sites is a complete waste of time. Angry Bear is not too different from EconoSpeak in regards to content and orientation, but it does attract a few of the less venal reactionary trolls. Exchanging ideas with the regular posters and commenters on these two sites has increased my own understanding of the issues discussed, especially Social Security. That enables me to have a more informed ability to discuss the same issues with friends and relations off the web and thereby have the effect that you, anon, are seeking. I don't think we can change the opinions of the trolls. There not on the sites to learn. They're there to convince themselves. It's your own small circle of friends that you may actually be able to influence if you sound knowledgeable.
"That enables me to have a more informed ability to discuss the same issues with friends and relations off the web and thereby have the effect that you, anon, are seeking."
As if you or your friends were ever going to vote for Mccain?
No. I talking about bringing the fight to the trolls and the credulous idiots who they impress.
I'm talking about chatting with, comforting hectoring and lecturing the stupid, who are after all the vast majority of the human population,
You continue to miss my point.
Amazing. I give up.
Rosser, tell your brighter students they should be trolls on right wing sites.
blogs are about bonding with allies, not convincing the undecided. people who get it should be writing letters to local papers and volunteering for Obama. the comment box is not the public sphere, folks...
"blogs are about bonding with allies...
the comment box is not the public sphere, folks."
Says who? Who defines what blogs are for!!?
You're making me want to agree with Cass Sunstein, and that's not something I would really ever want to do.
You want your echo chamber.
That's beyond pathetic, especially in a democracy.
Anon,
No, you are wrong. Many of the people I know are clueless and inclined to vote from an emotional base. That would likely mean McCain.
Friends and relatives both think this way. They are not inclined to vote from a perspective of strength.
They are frequently in fear of something. Obama is not a candidate for the fearful. He is a candidate for the informed. I spend a lot of energy trying to inform my small circle of friends.
I consider myself successful if I can multiply my vote by ten, but I'm looking for lots more than that. Direct intervention is the best means to change. Educate your friends and relatives. Leave the professional bloggers to the task of educating us in the ways to educate others.
So it's no use canvassing either, or volunteering in any other way. I know politics is a stupid business, but that's how it's done. We live by categories, not logic. These are your categories.
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